IN LOSS JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ WINS MORAL VICTORY OVER MANNY PACQUIAO

November 13th, 2011 By Kevin Perry

WAS MARQUEZ ROBBED OF THE VICTORY?

Los Angeles, CA- In the mind of this writer whose in the minority, WBO welterweight champion Manny Pacquiao (54-3-2, 38 KOs) squeezed out a close but clear decision victory over nemesis and huge underdog

MARQUEZ WINS A MORAL VICTORY

Juan Manuel Marquez (53-6-1, 39 KOs) Saturday night on HBO PPV. Marquez arguably pulled off the upset of the year, although unfortunately was on the losing end on the judges scorecards. A majority decision loss, with judges scoring the bout 115-113 & 116-112 in favor of the Filipino, while the third judge called it even at 114-114, was deemed controversial by some, however like the first two bouts many rounds were close and since the underdog Marquez performed well above expectation, in my opinion this altered the perception of both the viewers at home and those relentlessly booing in the arena.

 

PACQUIAO A CLEAR UNDERDOG VERSUS FLOYD MAYWEATHER

Based on his performance, or lack thereof versus the Mexican, Pacquiao would have to be considered a decisive underdog against Floyd Mayweather (43-0-26 KOs). Styles do make fights, and as witnessed by Pacquiao’s destruction of common opponents, a TKO over Ricky Hatton in two fistic frames, and an TKO 8 over a weight drained (and shot) Oscar De La Hoya, that this performance doesn’t necessarily reflect how he’d do versus Mayweather and vice versa. It is clear though that Marquez has his number and has a style that gives him fits. Floyd’s style has yet to be solved by anyone and that within itself would be a big hurdle for the Filipino, as well as Floyd’s advantages in size, defense and boxing skills. In the words of Pedro Fernandez, I concur “Manny Pacquiao couldn’t hit Floyd Mayweather on the ass with a ping pong paddle!”

DID MARQUEZ EARN ANOTHER SHOT AT FLOYD?


In fact Marquez who had previously laid the blueprint on beating the Filipino superstar, appeared more acclimated to the weight and may have secured himself a rematch with Mayweather. The little guy that Floyd was talking about facing on May 5th in many respects could be Marquez. It also appears that Bob Arum would be reluctant to put Manny in the ring with either Marquez or Mayweather at this point. It is clear since both parties waited to come to terms on the potential super fight that there was a chance it could lose it’s luster. Last night was the perfect of example of letting the steak “sizzle” too long. In one word last night Pacquiao looked “flat!”



-Kevin Perry

COMMENTS

  1. KP, my man, I’m proud of you. You finally saw what the rest of us have been seeing for a while now.

    todaline on November 13th, 2011 at 5:03 PM
  2. JMM should not bother with a rematch with Pac unless he is there just to collect a check. Forget about winning. If he couldn’t get the decision this time will never win a decision against that guy. Maybe a draw if he brutally knocked Pac out. Even that isn’t guaranteed. Glad to see Pac-FMJ lose all it’s luster after golden boy Pac was brought down a few notches.

    Chongo on November 13th, 2011 at 6:04 PM
  3. I’m a Pac fan, but I think he lost against Marquez in the fight by a very slim margin. Pac probably won around 4-5 rounds. Or maybe because I, like many people out there, EXPECTED too much from Pacquiao and seeing he didn’t get his hands full on Marquez was an indication of defeat? As you can see from the Compubox, Marquez didn’t really dominate the fight, but then you don’t score the fight based on the number of punches landed, but by the number of ROUNDS won, and I believe Marquez won MORE rounds than Pacquiao did.

    Marquez’ counter-punching style is superior to Pacquiao’s attacking style. Barrera, Morales, Diaz, Hatton, Dela Hoya, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley should have exploited this weakness to win against Pacquiao. Unfortunately, only Marquez can effectively use it against Pacquiao.

    But then it doesn’t necessarily follow that since Mayweather won against Marquez and Marquez won (unofficially) against Pacquiao—that Mayweather CAN EASILY win against Pacquiao. STYLES MAKE FIGHTS. Pacquiao’s style could be troublesome to Mayweather, as Marquez’ style to Pacquiao’s. Mayweather is NOT a counter-puncher, but a slick puncher who can easily jab and punch when he sees an opening (even when his opponent is apologizing).

    Marquez was the better boxer yesterday. No doubt. Pac has a lot of soul-searching to do if he wants to get his rhythm back.

    jordy on November 13th, 2011 at 6:08 PM
  4. In the minority? You mean there is another media person who thought Pac won? I sure can’t find that person.

    Warren on November 13th, 2011 at 6:22 PM
  5. Marquez’ style has always bothered Manny just like Ken Norton’s did Ali. Ali eked out two controversial decisions in fights 2 and 3, the former a split decision. Yet Ali beat Foreman and Ernie Shavers but Norton was KO’d in two and one round by these fighters, respectively. Thus, just because Manny did far worse against JM than Mayweather does not necessarily mean Floyd will dominate Pacquiao. Having said that, Floyd is probably salivating at the chance to fight Pacquiao now.

    But I give Manny a LOT of credit for having the guts to fight someone that he’s always had trouble with. I don’t think Floyd would do that; he has ducked some of the top fighters.

    As for no one finding a way to beat Floyd, I disagree. Jose Luis Castillio landed more punches than Floyd in fight one and I thought Castillo beat Floyd in the fight. So Castillo had the game plan to beat Floyd. Second fight was close to though Floyd did a LITTLE better in that one.

    I did not score the fight but my impression was Marquez won but I came to the same conclusion as KP on this one: Pacquiao has dominated every fighter since the last Marquez fight and when he does not dominate for the first time in a few years, it is perceived as a loss even though Pacquiao landed more punches.

    Jaime on November 13th, 2011 at 6:28 PM
  6. The most ridiculous anti-Pacquiao column I have read from you KP. Just shows your bias and your lack knowledge of boxing history at all.

    How about Ali beating Foreman but having a hard time beating Frazier and Norton? and Foreman easily beating Frazier and Norton?

    What can you say about that?

    Marquez is the “Frazier” and “Norton” of Pacquiao….don’t you think so?

    Perhaps that fight will make Mayweather’s ball reapper and will encourage him to fight, finally, Manny Pacquiao..

    EISI on November 13th, 2011 at 7:18 PM
  7. Todaline,

    I agree. Manny won a decision but looked bad, exactly what you seen.

    Richard on November 13th, 2011 at 8:55 PM
  8. KP,

    Do you think that maybe all the tough fights Manny has taken above his natural weight and his crowd-pleasing style hav taken its toll?? 2 wars and bore with Marquez, the battle with Maragito and Cotto, snorefest with Clottey, waltz with Mosley, etc. Even though some of these guys didn’t fight after getting hit, the battles that Mayweather didn’t face may be Manny’s undoing. Loaded gloves or not, fighting a guy like Margarito takes alot out of these guys. AS would Cotto. Too bad Maynever wouldn’t step in the ring with either, perhaps we would be talking his decline too.

    Richard on November 13th, 2011 at 9:01 PM
  9. Hey Kev and every1 pacman looked flat because marquez made the ajustments and simply outboxed him. The judgment and compubox were correct but for the wrong fighter. Looked like marquez won that fight 116/112 not pacman. Pacman thru 304 jabs be 4real. Chongo, your right marquez shouldnt take another match with pac but arum will try to milk them for 10 more fights if he could. If arum cant get marquez he’ll try for a cotto or margo rematch. Arum is the real reason the money fight fell thru. Jordy, money would humiliate and crush pacman. Jaime, it did look like castillo beat money in the 1st fight but the rematch was a shut out. Eisi and rich, name 1 fighter that pacman has fought whose last fight was not a loss? Cotto and margo are shot. Money fights winners and will spank pacman.

    CHICAGO on November 13th, 2011 at 11:30 PM
  10. What ever happened to style’s make fights….Just wondering?

    Rio001 on November 14th, 2011 at 7:33 AM
  11. I have never considered Pac a great fighter, just a good one who has been selective promoted. Al of his fights between the Marquez fights have been against name fighters on their way down,and on top of picking on end of line fighter had them fight at an unnatural weight he then fights a live determine fighter and in my opinion loses a close decision. Against Mayweather he will be humiliated, and probably stopped.

    I hope that this performance will shut Roach up.

    brad on November 14th, 2011 at 8:56 AM
  12. I watched the fight over again and yet again. Each time, I had Pac 115-113. By now means am pro judge, but we all know juding is subjective and the official scores, where not that loopsided. It is in JMM dna, to be a counterpuncher first and not coming forward. Manny continualy got off first, but got countered. He definately looked flat and was not what we are used to seeing from Manny. It took Marquez 3 fights to figure out a better plan. But he DID LOSE, yet again fair and square. Round 12 is where Manny stole the fight. Had Manny not pressed JMM to fight, it would have been another boring fight, just like when Floyd forced Marquez to engage first and took his counterpunching style away. The result, a boring fight and a master class by Floyd.

    williejr on November 14th, 2011 at 11:16 AM
  13. Here we are talking about Manny getting a decision over a 38 yr old lightweight and not May/Pac. Hilarious! Like I said I don’t care that Manny got the decision I was just tired of his moronic fans and some mentioning him as the greatest of all time! Case closed that will never happen specially when you can’t decisively beat a way past his prime Marquez. Imagine if Marquez was 32 yrs old himself? Marquez is clearly better than Manny enough said.

    TT on November 14th, 2011 at 1:17 PM
  14. In others words: November 12 everybody is saying what the rest of us have been saying for over a year. Pac has not changed, what has changed is, despite all precautions taken by the Bob Father to make him appear good, Marquez refused to cooperate, and the result is what we knew all along. And we’ve been thoroughly insulted because our eyes were showing us things others could not see. But mark my words, now that everybody saw that Arum will cash in before the super fight is destroyed.

    todaline on November 14th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
  15. I thought Max Kellerman’s pre-fight analysis of JMM was inaccurate, untrue, shows he did not do his home work and shows poor journalism on is part. Or that’s he’s biased.

    He talked about all the top fighters Pacquiao has fought since JMM II which is true but then poo-pawed the fighters JMM fought, calling Juan Diaz “washed up” [paraphrasing]. In fact, with the possible execution of his last fight, JMM has fought nothing but top fighters in or near their prime.

    Juan Diaz may be washed up NOW, but he was an undefeated champion when JMM took him on, was talked about as having the possibility of being an all-time great. JMM withstood an early beating, fought back and KO’d Diaz in a major, exciting victory.

    JMM also became the first to KO Joel Cassamayor when Cassamayor was still champion, near his prime and had come off a KO victory over then-undefeated Micahel Katsidis.

    JMM then beat Diaz in a rematch and KOd then twice beaten and dangerous puncher Michael Katsidis.

    JMM also fought and lost to Floyd Mayweather. No shame there.

    In truth, both Pacquiao and Marquez had fought and beat top fighters since their last meeting.

    JMM puts the word “box” in boxer. Many fighters are fast and have a good punch but knowing when to punch and how at just the right time is an art JMM’s mastered.

    Jaime on November 14th, 2011 at 3:53 PM
  16. I’m not in favor or against the decision of Pac vs JMM III fight. Over the last couple of fights JMM has closed the boxing gap Pac. From being knocked down 3x in first fight, 1x in second and now outboxing Pac and showed greater ring generalship; following this pattern JMM may win a 4th fight.

    Here’s my concern – Why do judges feel compelled to score even or non-decisive rounds when they can score them as even? These feeling out rounds where no telling punches mark a round or have any impact should not be scored. It ruins the scoring system. If rounds were scored evenly, this would eliminiate the bias that would favor a fighter on agression itself, and scoring would have nothing nothing to do with boxing, skill, or ring generalship. By doing so, this would allow for a more accurate score as rounds are tallied at the end of a fight.

    What do you think?

    El Mariachi on November 14th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
  17. i just saw the fight again …. i counted six instances where marquez threw combinations or an emphatic punch and pacquiao could not get away…. why???? because marquez was stepping on pacquiao’s foot!

    lordiemax on November 14th, 2011 at 4:42 PM
  18. Nevada is against scoring rounds even. They will scold a judge for doing so. Ask Keith Kizer!

    Pedro Fernandez on November 14th, 2011 at 6:47 PM
  19. floyd can be somewhat overwhelmed – a la Castillo – because he simply doesn’t punch very much.

    if floyd throws less than 25 punches per round pac beats him

    if floyd throws more than 35 punches per round he beats pac

    warren on November 14th, 2011 at 7:40 PM
  20. KP,

    By pointing out that you have Manny squeezing a victory, one can conclude your bias toward any opponent facing Pacquiao. JMM gave Pacquiao a boxing lesson. I could find 7 clear rounds for JMM. I couldn’t find one dominant round by Manny in the whole fight. Manny is perfect for Floyd. Floyd would catch him coming in or if Manny decides not to be aggressive Floyd will sit in the pocket and use his reach to pot shot him…..Manny is overrated.

    Beating average fighters like damage Cotto, and shot and drained Margarito, shot and drained Oscar does not make you great…And we all know Oscar was struggling with the bottle. And Ricking started sniffing heavy after losing to Floyd…

    jesustheprophet on November 14th, 2011 at 7:59 PM
  21. Both these fighters deserve much credit and to rag on th one, u also put do.wn the other IMO. I’d love to see a 4th pac/jmm fight.. but I’d rather see pac fight bradley at 140 or Amir Khan and see JMM take on either one of those guys as well…get a round robbin goin!

    1200 Techs on November 14th, 2011 at 8:14 PM
  22. Watch the replay of the fight… look at style makes a fight… Marquez keeps on stepping on the foot of Pacquiao to immobilize him…. that style…

    Baldolino Jani on November 14th, 2011 at 9:01 PM
  23. If scoring a round even are allowed, then marquez would have won the fight clearly. But like what pedro said, Nevad is against it. So those rounds who are too close to score or what El Mariachi said are feeling out rounds, i think were given to pac, that explains why he won the fight.

    DONDON on November 14th, 2011 at 9:56 PM
  24. It was a great fight, and JMM deserves a rematch, but let’s get real folks…These three fights were evenly matched, and that 3rd fight was not as exciting as the other two…I’m interested in either one of them trying to clear up 140, which means take on Amir Khan and/or Tim Bradley and have the four fight one another and see who comes out on top. The days fighters used to fight each other 5 or 6 times in rematches are long gone unfortunately. Remember the clamour when vasquez marquez four was made? How it shouldn’t be? Fighters donMt fight as often as they used to. period

    1200 Techs on November 14th, 2011 at 10:30 PM
  25. I wouldn’t mind Pac vs Marquez 4..But if Mayweather doesn’t fight Pacquaio now and faces JMM instead, idk about u guys, but that would be a wuss move on his part IMO. What do u guys think?

    1200 Techs on November 14th, 2011 at 10:36 PM
  26. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1cP4ce9LhM the proof why manny won…

    oliver on November 15th, 2011 at 10:18 AM
  27. Simple, Manny Pacquiao’s last opponents:
    [Shane Mosley, 40 @ 144 lbs]
    [Antonio Margarito, off suspension, @ 144 1/2 lbs, dehydrated, slow, slow, slow]
    [Joshua Clottey, @ 145 3/4 lbs; dehydrated, slow, and docile]
    [Miguel Cotto, @ 145 lbs, damaged by Margacheeto; and trained by his round-the-block buddy for this fight]
    [Ricky Hatton, @ 138 lbs, good but limited fighter]
    [Oscar DLH, @ 145 lbs; dehydrated, old, PT fighter...useless at that weight]

    Given the dehydrated state, weight and age of most of Manny’s recent opponents, is it any wonder that Marquez played Clubber Lang to Rocky (err, Manny) Pacquiao?!!? Manny’s cloak of invincibility has been exposed as the illusion that it was.

    MrSaito on November 15th, 2011 at 11:47 PM
  28. Let’s see Manny vs Berto, Ortiz, Bradley, Khan; or even James Kirkland (a true 154 pounder) – we won’t see them folks, don’t hold your breath.

    Pacquiao will continue to be matched with aging, or dehydrated fighters before Arum cashes in on him by pitting him against Mayweather; or any skilled fighter in his natural weight and in his relative prime. There should be no doubt now that Mayweather beats Manny decisively; I have no interest in seeing this fight.

    MrSaito on November 15th, 2011 at 11:55 PM
  29. Saito, Your weights are totally incorrect. Margarito didn’t weight 144. they fought at 150. De La Hoya decided to come in at 145. His fault. He could have come in at147. Clotty could have come in at 147, co catchweight there. Mosley could have weighed 147 if he chose so. Marquez had success because he’d already fought him twice.

    Kevin Perry on November 16th, 2011 at 12:18 AM
  30. Kevin, the point is that Pacquiao’s recent opponents are a lineup of aging, declining, or dehydrated fighters. Marquez, a full time fighter, a consummate professional, and a skilled technician, even at 38 years of age still exposed Pacquiao for the overrated fighter he is.

    Marquez had success because Manny had not fought a fighter of Marquez’s caliber since he last fought Marquez himself; most, if not all of Manny’s opponents since then were handicapped fighters in one way or another.

    MrSaito on November 16th, 2011 at 12:30 AM
  31. Blah Blah Blah…Saito, everyone thought they were tough opponents before they fought, then when they got destroyed it was because they were old aged or washed up. What a bunch of BS! He had had two close fights with Marquez before…Matquez had the style that gives him problems. Marquez was able to make adjustments.
    I agree Mosley was over the hill, however the rest of guys you mentioned were expected to give him problems and De La Hoya was favored.

    KP on November 16th, 2011 at 12:19 PM
  32. KP, c’mon man, a little common sense. Roach CHOSE Oscar and FORCED him to a WW catch weight because he KNEW that 1: Oscar not having made that weight for a decade he’d be very weak and 2: having trained Oscar he’d seen THINGS. How can you not see that EVERYONE Pac fought lately was coming off a KO loss, a humiliating points loss or was plain washed up, without being called a Pac fanboi? It’s not only about a fighter style, my good friend. In Pac’s case it’s more about TIMING. You have to choose when your opponent is ripe for the taking and this is what team Pac has been feasting on these last few years. As for the “everyone thought they were tough opponents before they fought”, wake up my man, a fighter will never go into a fight calling himself a softie. He has to sell the fight, so he’ll say whatever sells.

    todaline on November 17th, 2011 at 9:38 AM

Leave a Reply

Powered by Crowd Ignite