CAN FLOYD MAYWEATHER RETIRE UN-BEATEN UP?

April 7th, 2013 By Pedro Fernandez

Ex-World Champ Frankie Klick

CAN FANS COMPREHEND THIS?

San Francisco, CA- Some of you are probably scratching your heads after reading the title, so in order to fully clarify what I’m talking about, it’ll take additional verbiage. Having known professional boxers since I could first remember, Frankie Klick, who beat Kid Chocolate for the World 140 lb. crown in 1933 was the first pro I ever met. For the most part, Frankie was always on his back, drunk as a skunk, lying on the sidewalk somewhere on Cortland Ave in the Bernal Heights District of this beautiful City by The Bay.

NEVER FORGET HIS STORIES & MEMORY ISSUES

Frankie, who went 84-26-13, 24 KOs from 1929 to his last fight against an old friend of mine Al Citrino (who was knocked down 12 times by Henry Armstrong, decades before training Pat Lawlor to wins over ex-champs Roberto Duran, Wilfredo Benitez and Rene Arrendondo) in 1943, when he was sober would tell me about the great fighters of his era, Joe Louis, Armstrong, Ray Robinson, even Archie Moore. But he never put himself at their level, admitting that he was brought in to lose to Kid Chocolate, pulled off what amounted to like a 20-1 upset, and lost his next fight, a non-title affair before he defended and lost the championship in 1934 to Barney Ross. My old man said, and Frankie readily admitted that he had been beaten up many times in his career.

ALMOST EVERY FIGHTER GETS BEATEN UP!

I can go through a list of fighters, some local, some national, a few amateurs, but mainly professionals that were beaten up and the residual effects of such are telling today. Bobby Chacon, as goofy as he got from being beaten up, I introduced him once at the California Boxing Hall of Fame and he went up and admitted he was “brain damaged.” Said Bobby, “I’m a fighter and that’s what happens.”

UNBEATEN & “UNBEATEN UP” TWO DIFFERENT THINGS

As for guys that retired unbeaten, Rocky Marciano is always brought up, and when I look at interviews of Marciano before his death in an airplane crash, that was brought about because Marciano, a cheap skate of epic proportions, refunded his airline ticket and hopped on a small plane for free. To his credit, he never appeared punchy.

MARCIANO “WAS NOT” THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE

Rocky Marciano

That being said, Rocky may have retired unbeaten, but not unbeaten up! Archie Moore put a beating on him, so did non-puncher Roland Lastarza and Joe Walcott, the point is that Rocky did go unbeaten, but not unbeaten up!

Joe Calzaghe

CALZAGHE ONE OF FEW EXCEPTIONS TO RULE

When the ex-WBO 168 lb. titleholder Joe Calzaghe retired in 2008, not only was he unbeaten at 46-0, 32 KOs with 21 title defenses, the lad from Wales walked away unbeaten-up! Quite an accomplishment when you realize that out of the thousands of fighters who have boxed professionally, I can only cite Joe and 1950s heavyweight prospect Jack Scheberies, who retired abruptly after beating German prospect Hans Freidrich who went out “unbeaten up.” And if he continues on his current path, Floyd Mayweather will join this select group.

ANXIETY ATTACKS BROUGHT ABOUT RETIREMENT

Although BoxRec.com has him listed at 6-0, 4 KOs, according to promoter Don Chargin, both alumni of San Jose State College, Jack Scheberies was more like 15-0 with 10 KOs when “nerves” compelled him to hang up the gloves in 1954. A nicer than nice man, both to me and everybody I’ve ever mentioned him to, Jack had a heart of gold and once gave an unemployed mother of three an $800 car for a $25 down payment, this after took over his father’s use used car lot in Oakland, CA and became a referee. I was at a function some 20 years ago in Oakland speaking, when this woman told me how Jack helped her keep her family intact with a good running car and that she had no job or credit.

NOW YET THE “ROOT OF THE STORY”

The unnecessary beating Shane Mosley took from Saul Alvarez is one that he will pay for until they pour dirt over him. Some people think Manny Pacquiao, Vernon Forrest (twice) and Winky Wright (twice) gave Mosley a licking, but those beatings weren’t much when compared to the damage Alvarez inflicted. That being said, I’m going to call out both his trainer Nazim Richardson and trainer/HBO analyst Emanuel Steward, both good men and trainers.

THE FIGHT SHOULDA’ BEEN STOPPED!

Shane Mosley Taking Unnecessary Beating

Richardson should have thrown in the towel before the tenth round, if not then, certainly thereafter. But he didn’t. Instead he allowed the much smaller Mosley, who can no longer cheat and use performance enhancement drugs, something he has admitted to knowing of prior and then doing so. I’m talking about a couple forms of steroids and EPO (blood doping). Mosley, who is nearly 40, can’t push guys around the ring and that was illustrated when Manny Pacquiao mauled him for the better part of 12 fistic frames.

BOXING’S RESIDUAL EFFECTS ARE NOT LIKE A COLD!

The damage done by having someone punch you with reckless abandon to both the torso and cranium cannot be undone. Unlike the common cold, which most people can kick within 14 days, the results of taking hard punches repeatedly is like a progressive disease, like Lung Cancer, it doesn’t go away if you stop smoking. The same can be said from taking a beating.

PEOPLE THOUGHT SHANE WAS “MUMBLING” YEARS AGO

Having televised one of Mosley’s first four or five professional fights, I knew he was something special. In post fight interviews he was quick to respond, didn’t have to obviously think about what he was going to say before he said it, which today appears not to be the case. In other words, he’s a “beaten up” fighter who may have facial features that are distorted today, it will be his neurological state in five to ten years that concerns me more.

STEWARD & RICHARDSON BOTH GAFFED!

I am not one to believe that you let a fighter continue taking a beating. And what Alvarez was dishing out was a “complete” beating both to the body and the head, rocking Mosley much like President Kennedy in his famous rocking chair at the White House. Steward, Richardson, even trainer Jeff Mayweather while appearing on the Sunday edition of the “Ring Talk Boxing & MMA Hour,” was of the opinion that it was OK to let Mosley continue because of the fact he had never been stopped before!

LOST BRAIN CELLS ARE FOREVER GONE!

In closing, sustained beatings in boxing would not occur, boxers wouldn’t suffer concussions or brain bleeds at a 21% clip, not if boxing changed two things. The first being, the size of the gloves. Anybody 130 and below should wear six ounce gloves. From 130 to 160, eight-ounce gloves should be utilized. From 168 to heavyweight, ten-ounce gloves should be the rule. Truth be told, I even wince at that for if I had my druthers, boxers from 108 to 130 would use four ounce padded gloves, 130 to 160 would mean six-ounce mitts. And anything about 168, eight ounces should be the rule.

LEARNED ONE THING FROM SMALL GLOVES!

When I throw out the 21% factor of boxers getting concussions, the test results I’m relying on were from a five-year period in the state of Nevada. In that same time span, only 2% of the UFC related cage fighters who use four-ounce gloves incurred such injuries. For the safety of the fighter, the gloves need to be smaller for all the big gloves do is allow a sustained beating to occur, much like the Saul Alvarez-Shane Mosley fight which resulted in a 12-round unanimous decision loss for Mosley. Would the fight have been any different had they halted matters after eight? No, but Shane Mosley would’ve paid less of a price than he did and might even enjoy a longer and more productive lifespan.

Pedro Fernandez

COMMENTS

  1. Mosley has to retire that ass whooping will probably concuss his brain to the point where he will demand a rematch with Floyd!

    punchdrunkfighter on May 6th, 2012 at 7:04 PM
  2. Pedro, what’s your take on Bernard Hopkins? Isn’t he also, even at 47, an unbeaten up fighter? Or if he has been beaten up who did it?

    Linwood Rose on May 6th, 2012 at 7:48 PM
  3. I like the idea of smaller gloves but i favors punchers, also expect a lot more fighters to have hand problems. You’d expect a lot of fighters to merely slap with punches in fear of damaging their hands. MMA fighters don’t sustain the same damage because alot of their fighting consists of ground combat. I like your idea, I think it would make the sport safer and more entertaining, however if you were a boxer type not sure if it would benefit a defensive minded boxer.

    KP on May 6th, 2012 at 7:59 PM
  4. Calzaghe beat him up a bit! Taylor bruised him twice. Dawson licked him like a stamp in rematch!

    Pedro Fernandez on May 6th, 2012 at 8:15 PM
  5. The missing ingredient to the “smaller gloves = safer since ufc has less brain injuries” argument is that mma guys don’t have the pinpoint accuracy as boxers. when an mma/muay thai guy hits you it may be hard but it’s not one of those drop-you-and-you-don’t-know-what-happened type punches. it’s hard to explain but the punches don’t feel the same so the study would have to be done with boxing matches using lighter gloves vs boxing matches using heavier gloves.

    StickItIn on May 6th, 2012 at 9:52 PM
  6. Okay, here’s the reply. Nobody ever died in a bare-knuckle (no gloves) fight and that you have 265 lbs, guys pounding on prone (horizontal) guys. So, If you don’t think like 170 lb. monsters like Nick Diaz, who can box as well, or these 265 lbs. (at the weigh in) monsters striking a downed opponent with a punch thrown from the top are not more powerful than a boer hitting a guy who is moving about and standing up, then you’re not dealing with reality.

    Pedro Fernandez on May 6th, 2012 at 10:44 PM
  7. Whats up every1? Great article again Pedro. As we were watching the fights (shane vs canalo) last night my father and other folks at my party were saying they should stop this so he can fight again or another time. I thought no way let Shane go out on his shield, this will be his last fight anyway. Even though he was crying in the Pacman fight, Mosley is a Hall of Famer. He was never KO’d. Even against an undfeated fighter that was close to half his age couldn’t knock him down. This is Boxing. For some reason I never got into Joe Calzaghe. Ricardo Lopez was Top Dog of the all time greats. BHop is 47 years old. HELLO.

    CHICAGO on May 6th, 2012 at 10:56 PM
  8. Ricardo killed his legacy when he wouldn’t step up and meet Humbero Gonzalez or Michael Carbajal. I think jose (Sillyman) Sulaiman was calling the shots for Lopez, and he wouldn’t move him up a lousy three pounds. Good fighter, we’ll never know how great a pugilist, but a great person was Ricardo!

    Pedro Fernandez on May 6th, 2012 at 11:43 PM
  9. Another beaten-up guy is Juan ma Lopez, 2x from salido and 1 from the african (forgot his name) fighter

    dondon on May 7th, 2012 at 12:31 AM
  10. But does “beaten up” always mean dementia? Look at George Chuvalo. Who took more punches than him over the course of their career? Yet the last time I heard him speak he was as lucid as a child.

    SCR on May 8th, 2012 at 9:56 AM
  11. No, I just said beaten-up. Marciano got beaten up, no dementia there.

    Pedro Fernandez on May 8th, 2012 at 10:10 AM
  12. After watching the fight, I never got the impression that Mosley was slower than Alvarez. Mosley just couldn’t pull the trigger when he needed to. A shot fighter is what Mosley is. The brain sends the commands but the body reacts too slow. As far as Alvarez goes, this win proved nothing.

    Rob Hernandez on May 10th, 2012 at 5:22 AM
  13. i think shane has to keep fighting most likely for money. remember his exwife was his manager also, she got everything including shane’s championship belts (dont understand that) i think shane just needs money. thats it thats all.

    dizzj on April 8th, 2013 at 12:27 AM
  14. I don’t know what the actual number is but I do know that it is somwhere around 90% of all ring fatalities happen at weights 140 and below.

    Get busted across the face by Mike Tyson, your lights go out and that is pretty much it. You get in there with a buy like say Erik Morales or Marco Antonio Barrera, more often than not, you are going to be in there a long time, taking dozens if not well over a hundred shots to the head.

    I don’t know how relevant the UFC comparison is, it is a different breed of animal. I think that anyone who analytically looks at the two can see where the UFC is much safer in this regard. You have submission pins that are pressure point holds and pretty much the entire body is an acceptable target with much if not most of the maneuvering being of the non-impact variety where as in boxing, everything from the waist down is off limits and every single blow is the result of some form of impact blow… Whether it is a clean punch or the SOB is elbowing or head-butting you. It is the same thing over and over again… bam, bam, bam

    Jack Dunne on April 8th, 2013 at 8:27 AM
  15. Beautiful article. Again, you’re sharing your experience with legends like Frankie Klick, and you’re talking honestly about the dangers of boxing. This is as real as it gets for a layman like me.

    I hear that Mosley wants to continue fighting and that he thinks that he has “gotten his legs and reflexes back.” We all know that he may able to still beat some fringe contenders and club fighters, but that even this would be risky. Against real world class fighters at welter and junior middleweight, forget it. Let’s hope that his true supporters and friends intervene and help him explore other options to keep him financially solvent. I know that his divorce was very costly and that his ex-wife is in possession of his championship belts. Apparently, they’re to be given to his sons when they come of age.

    Several times, Pedro, you’ve mentioned the use of certain weight gloves to help nullify some of the risk for permanent brain damage. Please share with us some additional measures that can be taken.

    Geoffrey Sadao Prenter on April 8th, 2013 at 9:15 AM
  16. “Smaller gloves were safer,”you got this by comparing fatalities in boxing and UFC. Isn’t it the fight itself? MMA or Boxing when a man was hit in the head accurately then it can cause concussions. The difference is, in boxing you’ll have a 10 – 12 rounds continuous pounding while the UFC only have few rounds. Or maybe the kind of trainings they have to build their defence.. Just an opinion though. :)

    Dex on April 8th, 2013 at 7:05 PM
  17. Smaller gloves do not mean round after round of head punches. In a 5 year span, Nevada tested MMA fighters and boxers after fights. 21% of boxers had concussions…….ONLY 2% of MMA fighters had “brain bleeds.”

    Pedro Fernandez on April 8th, 2013 at 9:16 PM
  18. Geoff, thanks for the kind words. Frankie lived until he was 82 I think. Taught me more about boxing nd he never taught me anything except………….boxing can be hazordous to one’s health.

    Pedro Fernandez on April 8th, 2013 at 9:18 PM
  19. PEDRO, PEDRO, PEDRO! Finito wasn’t scared of Carbajal or Humberto Chiquita Gonzalez, it was the other way around. Lopez had the style to beat them quite handidly. You are talking about a boxer who was willing to fight anyone and demanded a rematch with Rosendo Alvarez. Finito stated he wouldn’t fight anyone til he fought Alvarez in the rematch although he had a rough time with him and fought him after he came in waaaaay over the limit in the rematch Sulaiman didn’t run Finito. If anyone, Beristain would have. Unlike Mayweather who fights has beens or coming up in weight and fought no more than 2 fighters in their prime. Finito fought the fighters who people wanted him to fight and those who people thought had a chance to beat him. Ricardo beat all those fighters easy. Mayweather will retire undefeatred because he wont take chances(Martinez, Pac, Canelo,GGG,Ward)

    Big Al on April 10th, 2013 at 9:18 AM
  20. AS LONG AS HE CHERRY PICKS USING LONG INTERVALS BETWEEN HIS FIGHTS. THE “GHOST” WILL BE HIS FIRST REAL TEST IN A WHILE.

    OTHERS ARE CHRIS JOHN 48-0-2 AND PAUL SPADAFORA 48-0-1

    terrible ted on April 13th, 2013 at 8:57 AM
  21. Floyd will probably retire unbeatenup , because he’ll onlyfight guys he is 99% sure he’ll beat. He doesn’t take on ALL comers ,he cherry picks everybody. I never even heard of the Ferro until

    Jose Ledesma on April 21st, 2013 at 6:42 PM

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