ALI, FRAZIER, HOLMES, & NORTON: 18 YEARS AFTER ALI-NORTON 3
January 17th, 2011 By Pedro Fernandez
"Champions Forever" Publicity Photo
San Francisco, CA- Any typical California day is not a typical one if retired boxing promoter Harold Smith is involved. That being said, Harold is coming in from Asia on this mid 1990′s morning for an event that a Sacramento, CA auto dealer had put together with Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes, and Ken Norton. Four champions, a short parade, shaking hands at an autograph signing and a dinner. With the ex-champs signing and posing for paid fans and VIPs, the car dealer would get major free TV plugs as well as print and radio ads.
BUT THE LIVE VIP PARTY WASN’T LIKE STUDIO 54
Maybe it had to do with the fact that the car dealer’s rep, a Latino, who had rolled the dice on the promotion being a success, because it was and it wasn’t! People at the time were not beating down anybody’s doors to buy new cars, nor were there a mass of people who would pay to get a picture with the Fab Four. Still, all four got paid. Reason I know this is Ali didn’t complain afterwards. Larry Holmes and Joe Frazier, you wouldn’t have gotten them their sans money up front. And Ken Norton, he’d still be woofing about it today had he not be paid!
TOUCHING PART OF RING HISTORY WITNESSED
They were going back and forth, Ali, Joe, Ken and Larry. Taking pictures and acting innocently silly, the champions had spent a lot of time around one another. Muhammad Ali spent more time on this one day with Ken Norton and Joe Frazier than they had possibly ever spent prior. Joe was talking a little smack, still angry with Ali, and had in recent years had all but mimicked Ali’s medical condition. There would be no peace between these two men, that would take many more years before Joe would publicly bury the hatchet.
Ali & Frazier At Peace!
HERE’S THE POIGNANT MOMENT FOR FIGHT FANS!
Ali’s relationship with Larry Holmes, never a bad one until promoter Don King put a dilapidated Ali in with him in 1980. Sad as it was, I still feel Larry took it easy on Ali, as least as easy as you can be in beating a man up for ten straight rounds. Everybody knows that all three Ali-Norton fights were close. Ken, breaking Ali’s jaw, won the initial encounter. Ali would win a rematch on points before they both put it on the line in Yankee Stadium, on September 29, 1978. Ken took it to Ali, as was the always the case and seemed to be the better man that night. It came down to the scorecards of referee Arthur Mercante 8-6-1 in rounds for Ali. Judge Harold Lederman & Barney Smith both had Ali up 8-7 in this 15 round fight.
KEN CRIED FOR YEARS ABOUT DECISION
During one last photo op, Ali leans over to Norton and says. “That third fight, I think you got it, champ!” With those words, the weight that came off Norton’s shoulders, hitting the floor so hard it sounded like falling concrete. Ken’s eyes lit up like you wouldn’t believe. Reaching over, grabbing Ali, I thought Norton was suffering from some type of emotional release. Yeah, I know he beat the guy that beat the guy, didn’t get the call, but here was Ali acknowledging the fact that Ken was right all along, he had beaten Ali!
Pedro Fernandez
I barely gave Ali 8 rounds in all three bouts with Norton combined.
Great story, I had never heard Ali said that to Norton about their third fight. God Bless Ali for doing that for Kenny. I watch a lot of tapes of the era we so enjoyed, and it’s so hard to judge with Ali and Norton. In the big picture I score the totality of all three of their fights as one big draw. I see different things each time I watch the last two of their fights. Win or lose, Ali was amazing I thought in the third fight considering it was even a miracle he could fight again after the third Frazier fight. I am a big proponent of even rounds, and in close fights, tight swing rounds that could go either way should not determine the outcome of a fight. The referee scored the third Ali v Norton fight for Ali, that carries a lot of weight with me as the ref was the closest to the action., most intimate with nuances going on. I wish referees still were included in the judging of fights to this day, and don’t understand why they are not.
ken deserved wins in all three…..
But let’s not forget that Ali, either suffering from a 3 1/2 year layoff as with Frazier in 71, or from just being past his prime, had to face Frazier, Norton, and Foreman in their respective primes. They were at their very best while Ali was past his. This is why these fights were competitive.
Had it been the reverse, with Ali at his peak getting to fight Frazier, Foreman, and Norton all being well past their primes, there would have been no contest.
The only reason we think of the 70′s as a golden era is because of Ali’s exile and the fact that he was past his best when he fought those other guys at their very best.
Bit of disagreement here. I had Norton winning pretty closely in the first, Ali deserving the second with his rally, and Norton getting robbed in the third. But shed no tears for Kenny. I thought he was lucky to get the decision over Jimmy Young (as was Ali). Jimmy was the most unlucky of the bunch.
Heavyweight Champ Muhammad Ali vs Challenger Ken Norton. 1976
rd……….MA…..KN
1…………10….9 CLOSE. KN’s left hook in 1st min. MA’s 1-2 in 2nd min. KN is aggressor. I think MA did enough from long-range to win rd.
2………….9….10 KN aggressive and landing body-shots. MA not throwing till a few shots in last 30 sec.
3………….9….10 CLOSE. KN is aggressor. MA not landing much, Ken throwing more. Best shots are by KN in last min.
4…………10….9 MA flurries and handspeed, counters, beating KN to the punch in the 1st 2 min. KN lands heavy at end, but KN not punching enough.
5………….9….10 CLEAR. KN really worked him over on the ropes in 1st 2 min. BIG rd for KN. MA didn’t do anything, and KN beat the $#!t out of him. MA tries to flurry in last 30 sec to try to steal the rd.
6………….9….10 CLEAR. KN worked him over. KN the aggressor driving MA back and landing punches. MA not punching, just holding. MA clowning but not landing shots. Brutal body-shot by KN at end of rd.
7…………10….9 Min 1 is close, but KN coming ahead. Min 2 MA with good jab, but lays on the ropes letting KN get some shots off. Good body-shots by KN. Min 3 MA flurries and wins big ’cause KN not throwing. MA is effective coming forward.
8………….9…10 CLEAR. Min 1 KN works him over in the corner and on the ropes. Min 2 MA landing jabs but heaviest blows are all KN. Min 3 KN works him over on ropes. Good body-shots by KN.
9…………10….9 Min 1 MA dancing and jabbing, KN not throwing. MA wins 1st 2 min on jab and movement with KN not punching. KN couldn’t get to him till last 30 sec.
10……….10….9 Min 1 MA dancing and jabbing. When MA moves and jabs, KN can’t land and doesn’t throw much. But dancing away don’t look like trying to win the fight while KN comes forward with aggression. It’s point-fighting, piling up points, against a man trying to stop the other man. How many light jabs it takes to offset a few power shots is a judgment call. Halfway through, KN gets him in the corner for a bit. KN gets to him a bit in the last 30 sec.
11……….10….9 Min 1 MA working KN over on the ropes. Min 2 toe-to-toe, MA lands more but KN’s shots are harder. Min 3 MA with right hand leads, KN lands some on the ropes. Have words at the end.
12………..9….10 CLEAR. Min 1 KN. Min 2 KN with jabs and rights to head and body, MA not punching nor moving as much. Min 3 KN really works him over good on the ropes. MA tries to flurry in last 30 sec.
13………..9….10 CLOSE. Min 1 KN landing shots, MA not throwing much nor landing. Min 2 MA throwing shots, KN not throwing much. Min 3 Holy $#!t, BEST exchange of the fight as MA stands and punches with KN. Close rd, but I think KN landed the harder shots.
14……….10….9 CLOSE. Min 1 MA missing jabs, KN landing shots to head and body. Min 2 MA landing some shots but KN’s shots are harder. Min 3 Good exchange. KN landed a few heavy shots but I think MA did enough to win rd.
15……….10….9 Min 1 MA dancing, jabbing, not really landing anything but KN can’t punch because MA’s long arms keep him just out of KN’s range. Min 2 MA dancing and jabbing, KN not punching enough but halfway through he lands a few on the ropes. Do you prefer volume/points or power/aggression? Appears more like MA just trying to stay away and keep the aggressive man off of him, but MA is Champ so it is on KN to be the aggressor and TAKE the Title away from him. In last 20 sec, KN finally catches him on the ropes and lands shots.
________________
Final….143…..142
……….MA……KN
………8 rds…7 rds
Harold Lederman…8 rds-7 rds
Ref Mercante…….8 rds-6 rds
Barney Smith…….8 rds-7 rds
In the 3rd fight, Ken Norton won his rds big and hammered Ali. Beat him up, hurt him.
Ali’s rds were rds where Ali basically just edged Norton a bit for points win but he wasn’t hurting Ken.
4 close rds. Challenging fight to score.
Furious exchange in the last minute of rd 13.
YouTube Muhammad Ali -vs- Ken Norton III 9/28/76 part 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkvQFOVq2OQ
Great comment David (Gangster!!!) I agree 100 percent. And u have to think ali’s timing and speed wasn’t the same at all. The only one I see giving him hell was Foreman. Foreman was a monster in every sense of the word. And by no means do I disrespect Ken norton. But for all my reasons I can’t understand how people call him an alltimer. Who has he beat besides Ali???? If he couldn’t muscle u he was out COLD!!! I don’t like when people give moral victories for losing. A loss is a loss. Look at Andrew golota. When he was DQ’d vs bowe. He was supposed to be the next big thing. But if I did an all time rating. I’d go Ali, Lois, foreman, Holmes, frazier, Lewis, Tyson, Johnson, V.klitchko, W klitchko. I don’t rate Holyfield cause he is a strait up juicer!!!!! I don’t care how much heart he showed he was a steroid monster. Dempsy never fought blacks and was super overrated. He won the title with loaded gloves. Marciano beat old light heavies and older heavies. And was too small to compete with anybody on my list.
Norton is definitely overrated. He had a style that was tough for Ali and other pure boxers like Holmes and Young, but I believe the right decisions were made in fights 2 & 3. Look at how they did overall vs all types of opponents and it isn’t even close, Ali was much better. Besides, he fought a prime Norton when he (Ali) was past his, particularly in the 3rd fight. After the 1st fight, Norton even said he didn’t think he could have beaten the younger Ali.
The main fact is that Norton did not fear an aging Ali, but he lost the fight in the locker room for the Foreman title shot.
yeah like there is no corruption in boxing after all ali was the cash cow for boxing so he is going to get the decision most of the time…remember the accusations about don king using his own judges and getting his mediocre fighters ranked..men took dives in the past like jake lamotta to get a title shot….there has been corruption since day 1….boxing has out prised itself thats why ufc is so popular now because it is mor accessable